New BB Bastard is Trash

[pestobanana]

Alright guys, its a shame to see BB Bastard go down to this level but its gotten to a point where they are continueing to blatantly lie to customers. Here's the backstory: BB Bastard ceased business operations a few years ago, 2015 or 2016 I believe. Last year at some point they resumed selling BBs but under new management.

New BB Bastard consistently maintained that their product is the exact same as old BB Bastard. I have brought up my concerns in the past directly to BB Bastard, giving them empirical data to prove that the new BB Bastard ammo is a shitty, bottom of the barrel product being sold at a premium price. They said they'd look into it, but they haven't. They are continueing to tell their customers that their BBs are the same high quality product that was sold years ago.

So here's what I did, I obtained a new bag of BB Bastard .3g ammo, and I have a personal stash of 10-20k old BB Bastards from a big purchase I made a few years ago of 100k rounds of BB Bastard .3g that was sold to a training company under the name "BOLO Gear" because BB Bastard was too "unprofessional". The new batch was purchased at the BB Bastard vendor table at Force Recon's Nightfall 8 in early June, where I sent one of my friends to buy the bag and specifically ask if they were the same as the old BB Bastards, to which they said they were.

I then took these BBs to a friend who's family runs a manufacturing business and has tools much more accurate than I own. He took these measurements using a Mitutoyo micrometer accurate to +- 0.001mm.

Here are the results (50 BB sample size, measured in mm):



Old BB Bastard .3

Minimum Deviation: 0.001
Maximum Deviation: 0.011
Average Deviation: 0.004
Standard Deviation: 0.002152023623

New BB Bastard .3

Minimum Deviation: 0.007
Maximum Deviation: 0.048
Average Deviation: 0.025
Standard Deviation: 0.01019282184

Yeah. The new BB Bastard is significantly worse. The average deviation is more than 3x that of the old BB Bastard, with the maximum deviation being more than 4x that of the old BB Bastard. The standard deviation is almost 5x higher.

Now lets put this in perspective. We tested a few different brands of BBs, with the expectation that Valken would be the worst we would measure. The actual worst we measured aside from BB Bastard was Goldenball.

Goldenball .25
Minimum Deviation: 0.005
Maximum Deviation: 0.043
Average Deviation: 0.018
Standard Deviation: 0.008389429984

Yeah, Goldenball is horrific. We thought it wouldn't get any shittier than Goldenball, but BB Bastard 1 upped them, and not in a good way.

To BB Bastard, this is ugly. You are blatantly lying to customers and selling them garbage. Get your shit together. If you want to sell a shitty product, that's fine, sell a shitty product but be honest about it. Don't go out there lying to your customers that its the same premium product as in the past. The ball is in your court for a response.

[cetane]

[kyle milliken]

Not surprised, saw the old post about the change in management and their promise to improve. Why would they make a better product when they can just hope you'll go away and they can make more money.

[Matt 'Maverick' Watts]

I can confirm that the current management is purchasing from the exact same manufacturer that the original management used. That was part of the agreement between the former and current management. In fact, it was the go-no go part of the agreement. If the same manufacturer was not used, with the original formulas, the former management would not sell.
The new management has not seen any data from you, ever. I confirmed this directly with said new management, who I personally know and trust.
If there is indeed an issue with the product, I can assure you that they will take the appropriate steps to rectify the issue.

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by Matt 'Maverick' Watts

I can confirm that the current management is purchasing from the exact same manufacturer that the original management used. That was part of the agreement between the former and current management. In fact, it was the go-no go part of the agreement. If the same manufacturer was not used, with the original formulas, the former management would not sell.
The new management has not seen any data from you, ever. I confirmed this directly with said new management, who I personally know and trust.
If there is indeed an issue with the product, I can assure you that they will take the appropriate steps to rectify the issue.

Originally Posted by Lakonian

No, the BBs are coming from a "new" factory that we have a relationship with. So, new to BB Bastard, but not new to us, or the process.

Obviously someone here is lying. Also the new BB Bastards have a strong odour as soon as you open the bag. Old BB Bastards never had that.

Also if they have never heard our complaints, then what are these threads?
https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=193906
https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=186639

[Matt 'Maverick' Watts]

My information is 100% accurate. That I can guarantee.
I even have confirmation that none of the ownership has received anything from you, through any form of communication. Again, I would suggest reaching out to them directly and discussing your findings with them.

[Freeze]

Clearly now the real play is for someone, or rather, a store or something to go find out which factory original BBBs came from and buy BB's from them again, then sell them to the market. I'd certainly order a crate of those myself.

[Matt 'Maverick' Watts]

Originally Posted by Freeze

Clearly now the real play is for someone, or rather, a store or something to go find out which factory original BBBs came from and buy BB's from them again, then sell them to the market. I'd certainly order a crate of those myself.

That is exactly what the new company is doing. Not just same factory, but same formula that was used by the original company.

[Freeze]

I think that by this point, regardless of who says what, regardless of whether the truth is they're using the same factory and formula or not, the indisputable fact is that these BB's are very subpar.

This would suggest that they are not using the same factory, or using the same formula, or using the same polishing procedures, or perhaps the factory has also changed owners and is no longer operating the same way.

There's no disputing that new BBBs are trash and an explanation is owed to as why the new management thinks they that they should be charging premium prices for sub valken products.

Given the statistical evidence regarding the variance in the new BBBs, I'm very much inclined to think a different factory or finishing polishing process is used. Either way, something has deviated from the original process and has degraded both the quality of the BB's and the name of BBB.

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by Matt 'Maverick' Watts

That is exactly what the new company is doing. Not just same factory, but same formula that was used by the original company.

Alright, then explain to me how there is such a huge discrepancy in BB quality? Why is there such a noticeable odour in the new BB Bastards?

[RainyEyes]

Please don't snort the bb's. All plastic odors are carcinogenic.

[Gerkraz]

Originally Posted by Matt 'Maverick' Watts

That is exactly what the new company is doing. Not just same factory, but same formula that was used by the original company.

You say this, and you say your information is 100% accurate and reliable, but something MUST be different since the quality of the product is different. There have been several threads on the subject.

Unless your assertion is that the new BBs are, in fact, the exact same and everyone is incorrectly remembering how the old ones performed?

[Matt 'Maverick' Watts]

The information I have provided is 100% accurate.
The company was sold. Conditions of that sale were that the same name, formula and manufacturer be used. They are. After that, the onus is on the manufacturer to uphold their part of the agreement, not me or you.
The original BBBastard had quality control issues at times as well. They got feedback and corrected it. Let the new owners do exactly the same.

[Datawraith]

Originally Posted by Matt 'Maverick' Watts

The information I have provided is 100% accurate.
The company was sold. Conditions of that sale were that the same name, formula and manufacturer be used. They are. After that, the onus is on the manufacturer to uphold their part of the agreement, not me or you.
The original BBBastard had quality control issues at times as well. They got feedback and corrected it. Let the new owners do exactly the same.

IIRC, Z attempted to do exactly that months ago in one of the threads he linked. Some people mentioned that they were simply sorting out QC issues, so okay, no noise was made for a while. However upon new testing, clearly the exact same issues are still present. So until when should we let them "correct their quality control issues"? For perpetuity? No thanks, I'll be buying other brands from now on. Even if they eventually correct it, I've no trust or faith left in the brand or owners, which is a real shame considering BBB's history.

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by Datawraith

IIRC, Z attempted to do exactly that months ago in one of the threads he linked. Some people mentioned that they were simply sorting out QC issues, so okay, no noise was made for a while. However upon new testing, clearly the exact same issues are still present. So until when should we let them "correct their quality control issues"? For perpetuity? No thanks, I'll be buying other brands from now on. Even if they eventually correct it, I've no trust or faith left in the brand or owners, which is a real shame considering BBB's history.

https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=193906
https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=186639