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[]D[][]\/[][]D December 13th, 2005 14:31

Gas Gun Care
 
I found this information at the Airsoft Atlanta web site and this is from our numerous experiences with Gas-Guns. This information is not all inclusive, and is subject to more testing, and opinions. This is up for more discussion and experience you all have had also. But, the findings are based on real-testing, and experimenting. I hope this helps everyone (newbie and veteran alike) on their gas-gun knowledge.

How to use a gas gun:

1.) Fill the magazine when it is upside down 180 degrees. The gas can will also be upside down. You will in essence have it upside down, not right side up when filling the gas in it. Its just like filling a butane lighter, you're transferring the liquid into the mag. Make sure they are both perfectly lined up vertically, not tilting sideways at all. Make sure the nozzles get a firm seal, and proceed to fill the "Liquid" into the mag. Filling time depends on the mag capacity. A normal handgun mag is generally about 3 seconds. A 50-round mag is usually about 5-6 seconds. Never ever fill it for more than 6 seconds! Do not fill it up till its, "full". You will destroy your mag this way. Filling the mags is a precision job, and requires skill. Do not mess this up, or you magazine will be toasted. When filling, do not get any liquid gas on your skin, eyes, etc. This will cause minor chemical burns, which are not pretty. You will want to wear gloves and eye protection when learning how to fill up your gun.

2.) What not to do when filling the mag: If you fill the mag, and gas-spills everywhere, STOP. Let the magazine warm up before attempting again. This is usually about 2-3 minutes. If you get a tight seal, and fill correctly, leave the mag alone. Do not use the gun till the mag warms up to room temp. usually about 2-3 minutes to warm up. Also, be sure not to overfill the mag. If you load it up for 15 seconds, you will probably blow the seals, or damage them. Do not fill for more than 6 seconds max, ever. Tapping the big metal button on the side of the mag will discharge the GAS reserve. Do not do this! It will prematurely wear the seals out. Instead, fire the gun until it is out of gas, or almost out. This is the safe way to discharge a gas-gun.

3.) Fire the gun in WARM weather. Using during the cold seasons are not advised. They will not cycle as well, fire good, and will use more gas than normal. Rapid-firing of the gas-gun will also cause the gun to freeze up, resulting in improper firing. This is usually not a problem in the summer months though.

4.) Use HIGH grade BB’s for your guns. In the KSC Glocks, cheap BB’s have a tendency to Jam in the magazine well, preventing proper firing. Marui and Excel BB’s are slick enough to work properly in the guns. Taiwanese .20 BB’s are highly un-recommended. Using .12 is not advised. .25 are good for all gas guns as well.

5.) Gas-gun care: Be sure to keep your slide and all moving parts slightly lubed with SILICONE oil. Do not use anything else. 100% pure silicone oil is recommended, as it is safe for use on plastic and rubber parts. You can get this at any hardware store, Lowes, Home Depot, etc… Hoppes #9, wd-40, and other products will hurt the guns. Lubing the slide will keep the gun working fresh. Not cleaning the slide, and lubing it will cause jams and improper function (like real guns). You will have to field strip the gun to access the slide and parts. ALSO, be sure to spray silicone oil into the top nozzle of the Magazine well, every 5-6 magazines worth shot. This is done, by pressing the big-metal button on the side of the mag all the way down. While down, use a quick spray of Silicone into the rubber top-part (into the mag). This will keep the seals properly lubed for a lifetime of use. This was translated from the KSC manuals (Japanese). Just, never overkill the lubing. This is gunk up parts too. Just use enough to keep a thin surface lubed.

6.) Proper gas type. This is still a bit debate among airsofters. Here's a recommended list of gases for guns. HFC 134a green gas (KWC brand, Marui, etc.) is good for Japanese made guns. The TOP (AKA, Top green gas) is made for non-blowback Taiwanese, and other Taiwanese guns. Using metal slides makes use of HFC134a useless. We recommend the top gas for use with heavy slides. We do not recommend PC Duster gas for guns. They contain no Silicone, and are not factory authorized. Plus, the cost is not much more for the proper gas. That is the general idea, now for a list of guns, and recommended gases:

KWC: use TOP gas only for all guns. HFC134a (made by KWC ironically) is NOT recommended.

KSC/KWA: Use the Taiwanese TOP green gas with all these guns. The HFC134a is not powerful enough. This is especially true for the metal slide/barrel guns.

Western Arms: Suppose to use HFC134a gas. You may also use propane and TOP gas with the proper adapters by airsoft innovations.

KJW, Y&P, STTI, HFC, other Taiwanese guns: TOP GAS only. Using HFC134a is not powerful enough.

Maruzen, Marui: Do not use TOP gas. HFC134a recommended only.

Marushin: Uses HFC134a for ALL guns. Except for the M1 carbine, it works well with TOP gas.

Storing your gas-gun magazines: Make sure you keep a little tiny amount gas left in your magazines when you are done using them. Just enough for about 1-2 shots or less left is perfect. Do not keep them at full charge, nor totally empty. Never slam all the gas out of the gun by depressing the hammer valve. This freezes up the seals, leading to long term damage. Keeping enough gas (tiny amount), to keep the seals tight is good. Some say keeping the mags empty is best, but we do not recommend that. Keeping a small amount is best from our experience.

This information is for veteran gas-gun users and newbie’s alike. They are your guns, do what you want with them. But, this is solid information we have gathered over the years and researched. We have handled about every gas-gun made, and tested most of them. This information is also from other gas-gun veterans and Japanese gas-gun manuals translated.

endLess December 13th, 2005 15:24

Its all about propane :p

-Trooper- December 13th, 2005 15:42

I think that most of that is common knowledge to airsofters.
They should put that in the FAQ section for people that don't know how to properly take care of their guns.

Mantelope December 13th, 2005 15:54

Just for you newbs who might be reading this, TOP gas/green gas is propane.

Iggy December 13th, 2005 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleyb
Just for you newbs who might be reading this, TOP gas/green gas is propane.

yeah it doesnt seem to mention anything about the propane adaptors and silicon oil from airsoft-innovations. i'm sure if they mentioned them and how adding a few drops of silicon oil in the propane can every 6-8 uses will keep your mags some-what oiled up.

attack-beaver December 14th, 2005 19:23

they never mentioned WE tech guns in the entire thing shamefull.

mcguyver December 14th, 2005 21:26

think "taiwanese".

glockinyou June 8th, 2006 08:22

damn thanks for the info.. lol a lot of gas seeped out of the tank while i filled it up and i think even my friend did it wrong..

sirex July 2nd, 2006 19:39

where do you get the gas?

mirage13 July 2nd, 2006 19:41

Buy Propane (Green Gas) at Canadian Tire for $3.50/tank.
Buy Duster (HFC143a) at Grand & Toy for $12.50/can.

Buy an adaptor for both gases and a bottle of silicon oil from ASC Armoury.

"All of your questions have been asked and answered, and are easily available to you by simply using the "Search" Function near the top of the page." ...or something like that...

incrediboy729 December 10th, 2006 23:40

what would you say to do for a loss of power/sometimes a BIG burst of gas out the top of the gun? If i hold the can on the mag while i shoot it does fine. please help me!!
P.S when is the forum open for posting?

Kuraitenshi December 11th, 2006 04:56

This question belongs in the doc's corner...
but I have to ask: are you tilting the gun like say horrizontally or more?
If you answered yes, then you've probably damaged all of your seals.
can on mag while you shoot??

incrediboy729 December 12th, 2006 00:07

i don't know how to post things in the d corner otherwise i would have sorry
anyway to repare them and how many?
P.S. i have never shot it upside down

Gh05t February 20th, 2007 20:16

whats the maximum amount of time you can leave ur mag filled with propane before it starts getting damaged?

also, i have an HFC Glock17.. do you recommend 0.2 gram BBs, or 0.25? thanks for the help.

thephenom February 20th, 2007 20:25

You can leave a bit of gas in, it should be fine. It keeps the seal in tact.

For GBB, the heavier, the more accurate, and you don't lose much FPS.

Gh05t February 20th, 2007 21:32

what about hit power? how much harder would 0.25 hit something/someone compared to 0.2?

incrediboy729 February 20th, 2007 23:28

i'd imagin quite a bit

thephenom February 21st, 2007 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gh05t (Post 426989)
what about hit power? how much harder would 0.25 hit something/someone compared to 0.2?

Let's just say, the one getting hit would feel it better as well as hear it better especially when you're in medium/long range. Not saying it's going to inflict a lot of pain, but with all the BDU and Vest we wear, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between 0.2s from far away and a tree branch depending where one gets hit.

For GBBs, I use 0.3g in games, better accuracy and not much lost in distance/velocity. For plinking, 0.2s, 0.25s depending what I have laying around. And since I don't use my pistols all that often, it doesn't dent my wallet a whole lot.

matt491 June 3rd, 2007 12:09

Update
 
This thing needs to be updated. My KJW's are using propane (or green gas) as recommended by the manufacturer. This FAQ says to use top gas only for KJW's when infact, most of their newer guns now shoot green gas, no? I could be wrong, but eh.

hattrick June 4th, 2007 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt491 (Post 481143)
This thing needs to be updated. My KJW's are using propane (or green gas) as recommended by the manufacturer. This FAQ says to use top gas only for KJW's when infact, most of their newer guns now shoot green gas, no? I could be wrong, but eh.

top gas is greengas

matt491 June 5th, 2007 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by hattrick (Post 481747)
top gas is greengas

Ahh....well...thanks for clearing that up for me....

Polar Nova July 22nd, 2008 12:29

That's a very good guide. Thanks.

Batchokookies August 5th, 2008 22:09

awsome, i can use propane in my WA M92FS. thanks for the tip.

pamparius August 6th, 2008 04:04

here is the video i found for GBB maintenance posted by RWA

YouTube - Gas Blowback Regular Maintenance

airsoftpunisher July 28th, 2009 00:31

uh oh i just got a KJW glock 32c and im worried that i need a new mag... when i first got the gun i kept filling it right side up not upside down like you supposed to... guess i should have read this right away because thats not the only thing i did!! i also: filled the gun when the mag was ice cold, never got a good seal on the hole where you put your gas in (i thought discharge was normal) and now my gun discharges like crap!!! gas wont even go in my gun!! im worried my gun is broken but i hope its just the mag..PS this is the first gas gun i have gotten.

m102404 July 28th, 2009 09:13

You might want to put your question into the Gun Doc section of the forum...this section is for gathering solid info all in one place, not to be diluted with questions/one-off troubleshooting.

Tys

georche November 25th, 2009 14:30

Hi guys,

I always wondered, and can't find anything on this, is it a good idea to put lube on the big rubber seal on top of the mag? the one where it has a square hole where the gas shoots out on the mag and makes a seal with the gun? or can we just leave it alone. I know when you buy a spare mag there is nothing on it....any ideas?

volteco October 19th, 2013 14:56

Sorry for ressurecting the old thread. If this was already discussed in some other thread, sorry, could not find it. Please point me to the right place.
This is a great guide, but I have noticed that some other people advise to fill mags with 3sec bursts as opposed to one 5-6sec burst, in order not to freeze o-rings on the fill valve. I would imagine you need more than 6sec for, say, WE M4 mag, since it is larger than handgun mag.
So, what in your opinion is the best practice for filling GBBR and handgun mags? How many BBs do you usually put in your mag? I personally find that 6sec is not enough to fill WE M4 mag in order to fire all rounds for 20°C.

Styrak October 19th, 2013 16:11

I fill my pistol mags until they're full...

pestobanana October 19th, 2013 16:50

Why would that freeze your O-ring...

volteco October 19th, 2013 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Styrak (Post 1842613)
I fill my pistol mags until they're full...

But how do you define "full"? How do you know they are full? I know TM mags start to spill gas. But what about other brands?

volteco October 19th, 2013 17:00

To Pestobanana: Because if you fill a mag for 6sec or more you can feel that the fill valve gets really cold.

pestobanana October 19th, 2013 17:04

It shouldn't get really cold unless something is leaking.
Fill until you stop hearing propane moving through the valve, that's how you can tell it's full.

Quote:

Originally Posted by volteco (Post 1842622)
To Pestobanana: Because if you fill a mag for 6sec or more you can feel that the fill valve gets really cold.


volteco October 19th, 2013 17:16

I see. So how much time do you think it takes, approximately?

volteco October 19th, 2013 18:28

Also, what do you guys put in your TM mags these days? Do you just put propane? Or duster? Is it tetra- or di-?

pestobanana October 20th, 2013 11:16

Maybe 5 seconds or so? I'm not sure. As for tm mags I use propane. Are you askin these questions because you use tm pistols? Their fill valves do not have o-rings you can freeze.

volteco October 20th, 2013 13:37

I do have a few TM pistols but never filled them with anything yet. Just don't want to screw them up. My secondary is KJW M9 with 3 mags. I think I overcharged at least one of them because it started leaking recently. If I fill the M9 mags for 5 sec it is not enough to empty the full clip, so I usually charged them for 6-7 sec.
I also have WE Scar with 5 mags. I bought them all used and had to reseal all of them and oil the valves. I think they still leak a bit but not as much as before. It takes a couple of weeks now for all the gas inside to leak out. So basically, I just want to make sure I don't screw them up.
I am wondering what other people experiences are like.

redneck12 October 20th, 2013 13:42

Gas mags leak all on their own sooner or later, its inevitable.

pestobanana October 20th, 2013 17:55

You aren't going to cause a mag to leak by "over filling"
Like I said, fill until you stop hearing the sound of filling...

Chromey October 21st, 2013 21:57

If it has not been said, I like too stick my ear too the tank while filling my mags.
When you stop hearing flow, Its full.

Latvian291 October 27th, 2013 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneck12 (Post 1842783)
Gas mags leak all on their own sooner or later, its inevitable.

I store all my magazines in ziploc freezer bags to keep the seals from drying out.

Chromey October 27th, 2013 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latvian291 (Post 1844769)
I store all my magazines in ziploc freezer bags to keep the seals from drying out.

I haven't tried this.. Can anyone else confirm this that it works?

slntdth93 October 27th, 2013 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromey (Post 1844809)
I haven't tried this.. Can anyone else confirm this that it works?

It helps detecting leaks from what I know (ie. if your ziploc bag inflates, you have a leak)

revolutionaryMarxist November 1st, 2013 12:01

It says not advised for use in cold seasons but what is his definition of cold?what temp is too cold?what temp is pushing it but will b ok with proper care?i wanna play a skirmish on nov 9. night game......we ak74un we g17 using propane

FirestormX November 1st, 2013 12:29

I've seen people state that propane starts to lose pressure between 5-15c.
An overnight game in Southern Ontario will be pretty close to 0, according to weather forecasts for the 9th, so you may want to have an AEG backup.

If you keep your mags inside your coat, to keep them warm, you may have decent results.

Styrak November 4th, 2013 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneck12 (Post 1842783)
Gas mags leak all on their own sooner or later, its inevitable.

Some don't. Especially TM mags

Styrak November 4th, 2013 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by revolutionaryMarxist (Post 1845867)
It says not advised for use in cold seasons but what is his definition of cold?what temp is too cold?what temp is pushing it but will b ok with proper care?i wanna play a skirmish on nov 9. night game......we ak74un we g17 using propane

What temperature? Just going with instinct I would say they're not going to work at all. Use an electric gun.

TANNER November 22nd, 2013 15:30

I was always curious about whether to leave the pistol / GBBR cocked or not. Can anyone shed some light on this?

The question came up again with the recent acquisition of a WE GBBR that will not set into safe unless the gun is cocked. Is it safe to leave it cocked? I assume yes.

MultipleParadox November 22nd, 2013 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by TANNER (Post 1849710)
I was always curious about whether to leave the pistol / GBBR cocked or not. Can anyone shed some light on this?

The question came up again with the recent acquisition of a WE GBBR that will not set into safe unless the gun is cocked. Is it safe to leave it cocked? I assume yes.

Safe in both case, in theory
The springs will loose its "spring" through work, being repeatedly compressed back Zander forth

But technically, a gun is safer if not cocked, no mags and all, than if cocked and on safe

Long story short:
Treat it as a real gun->
mag out, empty chamber, returned to battery/uncocked

Jamroxorz November 22nd, 2013 16:35

Those Germans always being ready to shoot someone haha. I'm assuming you're speaking of a G36? No safety unless cocked?

My friend ran an Mp9 almost flawlessly in probably 5 degrees or so. The NS2 system works quite well. Another alternative is use propylene, it has higher pressures.

Diadochi November 24th, 2013 20:54

Has anyone tried 410A refrigerant? "red gas" is just R-22, which is being phased out of production, and propane in also a refrigerant. 410 is just at a higher pressure at lower temps, roughly the same as propane on a warm day actually.

TANNER November 25th, 2013 09:26

Thanks MultipleParadox,

Jamroxorz - British flag, not german ;)

FirestormX November 25th, 2013 11:41

Jamrxorz: M4s are built like that - you can't engage the safety unless the gun is cocked. I never understood the reason for that. 1911s do that too.
Are G36s like that as well?

Danke November 25th, 2013 12:48

Always ease springs. Mags empty, hammer/striker released, bolt/slide forward.

As for why you can't put them to safe it gives you a very easy one handed way to check if you've got a cocked weapon in the dark etc.

FirestormX November 25th, 2013 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danke (Post 1850190)
As for why you can't put them to safe it gives you a very easy one handed way to check if you've got a cocked weapon in the dark etc.

That makes sense on an M4, and I currently utilize that when I'm putting my guns away, to make sure they're not cocked.
Is that the same reason for a 1911? It's got it's cocked hammer extruding from the gun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danke (Post 1850190)
Mags empty

I always followed the train of thought of keeping at least a little gas (with the added silicone oil) in your mags, to help slow down the drying out of the orings.

Danke November 25th, 2013 13:18

Mags empty of BBs. Part of easing springs.

If you're in the dark or you need to have your eyes elsewhere you won't see that hammer.

Your thumb naturally falls on the safety lever first. So that's easy to try and push up first thing.

TANNER November 25th, 2013 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danke (Post 1850197)
Mags empty of BBs. Part of easing springs.

If you're in the dark or you need to have your eyes elsewhere you won't see that hammer.

Your thumb naturally falls on the safety lever first. So that's easy to try and push up first thing.

Makes sense,

I also hear its damaging to let the hammer fall by itself when the mag is out of the WE M4. Is there a good way to release the hammer? Or is doing it now and again not a big deal.

Danke November 25th, 2013 14:27

I don't worry about it myself but if you like.

Pull and release charging handle. Now switch to safe.

Push out rear pin and remove bolt.

Place thumb on hammer, switch to fire and pull trigger. Catch and ease hammer forward. Close up and store bolt and rifle separately. Just like a real AR.

Styrak November 27th, 2013 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danke (Post 1850203)
I don't worry about it myself but if you like.

Pull and release charging handle. Now switch to safe.

Push out rear pin and remove bolt.

Place thumb on hammer, switch to fire and pull trigger. Catch and ease hammer forward. Close up and store bolt and rifle separately. Just like a real AR.

I don't think anyone stores a real AR with the rifle and bolt seperated...

N_Force November 28th, 2013 12:12

It's a useful info about gas gun care. I'm more like a collector than a gamer. I collect only gas guns within these 2 1/2 year around 15 - 20 different rifles and pistols, new and used. I did the gun care and maintain even modify by myself. As of my experience I would like to add a bit more if that also count into gas gun care. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Gas gun has more vibration and higher impact than electric when shooting. Means some pins and screws could get lose easily. By lubricant your moving parts in your weapon, also check if there is any pin pop out or lose screw. That could cause problems if not be addressed and taking care of. Apply thread lock if needed to secure it in place. Further more, check with excessive wear, crack or damage everytime you do you gun care. If there is any, it will belong to maintenance and get gun doc to do it right if you don't know how to handle it. Enjoy and have fun!

Sequential December 29th, 2013 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by N_Force (Post 1850843)
It's a useful info about gas gun care. I'm more like a collector than a gamer. I collect only gas guns within these 2 1/2 year around 15 - 20 different rifles and pistols, new and used. I did the gun care and maintain even modify by myself. As of my experience I would like to add a bit more if that also count into gas gun care. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Gas gun has more vibration and higher impact than electric when shooting. Means some pins and screws could get lose easily. By lubricant your moving parts in your weapon, also check if there is any pin pop out or lose screw. That could cause problems if not be addressed and taking care of. Apply thread lock if needed to secure it in place. Further more, check with excessive wear, crack or damage everytime you do you gun care. If there is any, it will belong to maintenance and get gun doc to do it right if you don't know how to handle it. Enjoy and have fun!

+1 its the blow back that makes things come loose and break.
So it is best to inspect the gun after every game, lube it and clean it.
Neglect will only lead you to more problems.

alchemy July 19th, 2015 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diadochi (Post 1850077)
Has anyone tried 410A refrigerant? "red gas" is just R-22, which is being phased out of production, and propane in also a refrigerant. 410 is just at a higher pressure at lower temps, roughly the same as propane on a warm day actually.

Havent tried it in a cold weather game yet, but testing it in my GHK currently. 410a is actually about 100psig higher than propane at any given temperature i.e at 80 degrees F 410a is 230psig, while propane is 130psig.. at 32 degrees F, 410a is around 110psig so theoretically it should work about as well as propane down to the freezing mark.
Rubber seals and gasgets are safe to mix with hydrocarbon refrigetants but you may have to tighten some things because the pressure is higher.
Goolge search PT chart r410a and r290 (propane) for a complete refrence.
If youre going to be out in colder weather youd need to goto CO2 or I had the idea of taping 'hot mits' heating pads around the mags to keep em warm. :)

Stainless Steel November 23rd, 2017 22:18

What type of adapter is needed to use a regular propane from CT?

R.I.T.Z November 23rd, 2017 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stainless Steel (Post 2014094)
What type of adapter is needed to use a regular propane from CT?

http://airsoftdepot.ca/catalog/produ...products_id=79

Thrawns_drycleaner February 26th, 2022 19:48

Awesome guide thanks! Plus good info from commenters.


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