JG M4A1 vs. Aftermath Kraken
 

I have been reading up on both of these guns, but I'm not really quite sure about one thing. Near everyone says that the Kraken will not work in the the long run without some upgrades, but I am assuming this is only the case if it is gamed regularly.
Keep in mind I am looking for a gun just to plink in the basement with, maybe open up and learn something new first hand.

So my questions is: Is the Kraken comparable in terms of accuracy, and reliability (for light use in the basement) without any internal upgrades to the JG M4A1? (I feel that the extra $100 on the price tag would need to be justified)

http://www.shootsoft.ca/clearsoft/pr...roducts_id=184

http://velocityarms.ca/index.php?mai...roducts_id=197

I am aware the second link is DPMS, but to my knowledge, it is just a rebranded JG

get the kraken, learn how to upgrade the mechbox (its not hard) and put the 100$ in the mechbox and you will get a gun that shoots great and will be more reliable, shoot better than the stock JG

Thanks a lot :D

Should this be done as soon as I get the gun, or wait for it to crap out?

Some people have had success with their Krakens for 50,000+ BB's however it sounds like for the most part you want to do preventative maintenance and do it ASAP before it craps out on you.

Go and read the "So you bought a Kraken" thread and it will give you a good primer on what you'll need to go ahead with the Kraken and some background info about it.

Read straight through that thread at least twice ;)
Thanks for all the fast responses!

I am assuming all of these suggestions are to increase longevity, and not performance?
And I have never worked on a gearbox before so I have no idea what is what, are there any diagrams that label such parts?

Mechbox.com,
Im not sure if they point out the parts or not though.

Ya, I just chcked them, they shouw the removal of the mechbox, but not the mechbox internals themselves. What would the least nessecary upgrades above be? Step 1 is simple and 2 in my mind is not nessecary.

IF you don't want to fiddle with the gearbox, you could just get a "Drop in" gearbox. Which is essentially a gearbox, that you just put in the old ones place.

For reference: (one of these) http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...ex&cPath=66_77

I found that they are sometimes cheaper than buying all the parts separate (not in the same package).

A tightbore and King Arms hop-up will also be a big improvement on your stock Kraken.

Why King Arms?
Spend the extra couple bucks and get Prometheus (inner barrel and Hop-up)

The only thing that would increase performance from that list is the hop up unit + rubber.

Also to the best of my knowledge there aren't any terribly *good* drop in V3 mechboxes (supposedly the "Action V3 drop in gearbox isn't that great) so you're probably going to have to get a shell + parts and assemble one, however due to fitment/tolerances between different aftermarket companies this may prove to be a headache (they will always have the right tolerances for Tokyo Marui OEM plarts but may not play well with other aftermarket brands parts).

I myself quoted the price of a V3 mechbox with all Prometheus parts and a gearbox shell and it looks to be ~$350 USD however you may have better luck finding good deals for these parts and such.

From your list though personally speaking I would say drop the hop up rubber, nozzle and spring guide. As for the wire and connectors you may have better luck at a RC hobby shop or electronics store. I know you can get a bag of deans connectors for ~$5 and the wire can really be found from a local electronics hobby shop or even your local high school (if you have any friends/siblings in school or know someone who does work with electronics).

I thought the gears themselves on the Kraken were fine, and the main problems were the piston, spring guide and cylinder?

http://www.weaponblender.com/index.php?productID=597

This what you guiys are talking about? (is it a decent drop0int (better than the kraken)?)

Just because thats what I have experience with, its in my Kraken, I -KNOW- it fits and works just right. Other than that its not a poor quality unit and fairly affordable.

I would put my money on a stock JG over Aftermath any day. I've always insisted and stick by my guns (no pun intended) that the Kraken is a good project gun for someone that wants to eventually upgrade it to full metal and wood without having to fork out all the cash at once. Over time, you can have a gun that will shoot better and be far more solid than a stock plastic TM, and will cost about the same. Stock however, I wouldn't trust a Kraken as far as I could throw it. You'll need a bunch of internal upgrades out of the box to keep it going.

If you're talking stock, JG is the way to go. I've had JG, I play with guys that have JG. Most of them have run stock JG M4s for 3-ish years now and haven't had a single problem with them without even openening them for preventative maintenance. I would put my money on JG any day. Out of my entire collection of 17 guns, I'd have to say the single toughest most problem-free gun was my JG MP5. I've never seen a gun take that kind of abuse and keep on working as great as the day I got it.

Hmmm, not sure what to think know, because of the Chinese Brands getting better.
But since Kalash is a Dboys company I wouldn't trust it.

JG all the way!

The next posts were originally seperate, but i figured triple posting would just be suicide


Ok thanks, but would a stock JG gun outlast the Kraken, even with a new gearbox?
Also, I would have no need for metal body and wood because it would just be a basement plinker, maybe it would evolve into a project gun (which I doubt)
And Long_Bong, seeing as I know that you have the Kraken and have worked on it, I guess you would know best :)

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Ok so from what I know, ordering guns from the US is a big no-no (so is double poting ;)) But from my undertainding it is ok if the gun is clearly a toy, as to not be seized at customs.

http://www.softairpro.com/airgun_gal...cat=587&page=2

SO, this IS an American site, but it sells the same gun for nearly 100$ less than 007, buyairsoft and... velocityarms I believe. I know different custom officers have different opinions, but becuase this is clear, it should make it through (shouldn't it?)

Say, if you had no access to the classifeds, would you take your chance on it?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

Guess what just came into the picture :D

http://velocityarms.ca/index.php?mai...roducts_id=195

I have to say, I hate the looks on these things, and the size felt to small (I'm 6'2"), but it's JG, and it's cheap

AHAHAHAHAHAAH

LOOK WHAT I JUST CAME ACROSS! Urban Dictionary is the best.

Airsoft Canada 9 up, 118 down
A lost cause, An airsoft forum based in Canada. These forums will be the very death of airsoft because of there inability and refusal to band together and change the laws and importation regarding airsoft in Canada. And because of something called the "Age Verification" system, which requires you to meet up with an "Age Verifier" in real life and show them that you are 18 years of age in order to purchase airsoft guns, because of this many new people have been turned away from the sport because of this time consuming process. Airsoft Canada has went out of there way to make sure NO airsoft guns are readily available in Canada. When new people try to join the sport or use mid-range guns they are immediately turned away from the sport by the elitist people on the forums. Airsoft in Canada is strict Milsim only and a lot of the forum members stand by the "milsim first, Than fun" code. When non-verified members ask questions there flamed for not being verified and accused of being under 18 despite some are 20-30. Pusangani and Kalnaren are notorious for flaming and cause most new members to leave and not come back, thus killing airsoft farther. If you have earned the privilege of being "Age Verified" you have to be prepared to invest more than $300 on a gun such as Jing-Gong or Kjw. For a Tokyo Marui be prepared to spend $500, And for a Systema/Ptw $900-$1500. You are not allowed to game with anything lower than Jing-Gong or else you are turned down by ASC and not allowed to show up at games.

lol ur a bit late :) http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=88209

DAMN IT! Just a few weeks too. And from what I have read from you, I can see how you scare the kids lol ;) I just think you're hilarious

Well at least your scaring young, stupid kids away because im assuming thats who wrote that urbandictionary entry. But anyways yeah im wondering if clear airsoft guns will make it across the border too, because i know there legal to ship but would it be at the customs officers discretion?

The thing though is that it *is* at the customs officers *discretion* as to whether or not to seize and destroy it. Pertaining to the laws currently and by CBSA's internal rules it seems like you will be totally in the clear but if someone decides to seize it and send you a letter of seizure the only move then is to appeal it and it can take anywhere from a day to a few years to get them to test, and review your case and all that. Personally for me it's not worth the headache (the hours, sleep lost, and stress just isn't worth it to me). As for you or others I don't know, you should consider it and ask yourself if it's worth it. If it is then go ahead but if it's not then just order from within Canada.

Man.... you should have seen this forum before when I joined. It was practically an internet version of the wild west. Where big guns, flame suits, and pre-emptive strikes were necessary (didn't help that I was like 15 at the time). These newbies these days think they have it *soooo* hard but in reality they wouldn't last more than a second back then.

If I did order it from the US, and it did get seized, there would be an option to send it back to the manufacturer, would there not?

There may be an option to return to the store you bought it from however I believe you must use "their" ("Special government approved") couriers and all that. Also that assumes that the manufacturer even lets you return the item (maybe minus a 15% restocking fee).

Appealing the seizure or sending it back are really your only options in the end then I guess.

Nah.... I guess its not worth the $50. Plus now, I get to support velocityarms! :D

BUT, remember this is still assuming that the JG is completely superior to the Kraken, even if I spent the price difference between the two on upgrades on the Kraken

Soo, im surprised that no one else has mentioned this,

Why not a G&G m4?

The rec versions are only $260 now, and are miles ahead of a JG or Aftermath.

haha, It's funny you should say that. A few months ago a made a total noob thread, asking about JG M4's and differnt verisions and such. The question came up about JG, and everyone seemed to conform to the fact that G&G and JG are about at the same level of quality, (but in my mind the G&G wins the looks, love smoked lower)

So....ya... any more opinions on this? Thanks for bringing that up btw

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v...k/dududuel.jpg

Whoever gets the refrence wins 1000 internetz

Yu gi oh, and All black ftw.

If you read the thread, you would know that the fact that it is black doesn't really matter, because it would stay in the basement as a fart around gun.

And aren't the AK Iron sights easier to use than the M4's?

If ur not gaming it then get the kraken it's a more economical choice

+1


Bud Im not trying to crush dreams.
im sure stated before, Getting age verified is key Krakens are cool last long and great but there are some really good deals on AKs on the classifieds, who knows you may wanna come out of your basement.

G&G rec is almost twice the price of a kracken, yes, but! heres why its worth it.

It comes with a pretty decent battery and a charger with an auto shut off feature. Kracken comes with a shit battery and a terrible charger (+/- 100 bucks to replace them with a decent battery and charger)

G&G internals and externals are much higher quality then JG, and much, much, much better then internals of Aftermath. The only issue i have found with G&G internals is the compression parts, they are not the best.


The halfbreed G&G acctually look pretty good, with a mag in from a distance, you can't even tell they aren't full black.

Just IMO, G&G is a much better buy then a aftermath or a JG, even if its just a G&G rec

.... So... basically.... ya.

I was stupid and didn't even consider this, but there is no need for an AEG for basement-fun-target shooting.

what about an airgun?

I was thinking that too, and I already have a couple, but I figure if the time comes that I do want to game it, it would still be possible.

Its your call, but the G&G will give you many less headaches, plus, it has a warranty.

I find your opinion is hard to describe. G&G is a very strong and reliable manufacturer, however their Cansoft versions are the exact opposite of their full blacks, mainly for the fact being they are made of lower quality metals (CAS versions atleast) along with the fact the plastic is very likely to crack/spider. Sure it comes with a warranty but from what ive seen from people that own krakens, they are very happy with them especially with a new body (AK74 front stock/foregrip and AK74 style rear stock) and they seem to be having less lemons (the OD version at least) than G&G and the fact that the Kraken is mostly TM compatible would already make it a 100% selling point for the fact being if i dont like whats on it i can switch it for parts made by quite possibly the best AEG manufacturer out there. Oh another the other part that destroys the G&G RK47 REC is the fact that the kraken is $150-$180 if it breaks you can return it to basspro and they will most likely refund your cash or replace it within 30 days or you can even buy 2 for less than the G&G AK. And as far as JG goes it kicks G&G's ass and hands it back to them gift wrapped with a bow tie on top. The best clone manufacturer that ive seen so far, along with CA (Full metal and wood goodness ^_^ )

Perhaps you heard me wrong.

I am not saying G&G are amazing guns, I'm saying that they are the best semi-clear/clear guns availible.

You seem to be bashing them pretty hard, I am speaking purely through my experience. my JG is a total POS, i guess i got a lemon, but it has been nothing but troubles (full back G36).

A friend of mine has an aftermath, Its really not great, clear lower/green furniture looks like ass, sure, its cheap, but in my experience, it will crap out on you so many time in so many ways, its worth it to just skip the headache and buy something else.

My G&G?
It works great, no issues at all with it, Shoots very well with a shockingly high ROF. The only thing that has broken on it so far is the lower (yea, i will admit this is a weak point in the gun) but i have metal body on the way, so that should solve that problem. Only reason the lower broke in the first place is because i fell on it...long story

When i say my oppinion, i mean my experience. Maybe You are right, and i just got really lucky with my G&G, and really unlucky with my JG, but from what i have seen first hang, G&G>JG

Dude, i just got the DPMS JG rebrand from a canadian site, for a fraction of the price-180 dollars. Dont buy American, clear or not.

are you serious? as in not the classifieds? could yo point me in their diriection? because I have chked 007, velocityarms, buyairsoft, and shootsoft

http://www.shootsoft.ca/clearsoft/pr...roducts_id=184

Best price I have seen so far.



And lol, the JG M4 is only $5 more than the Kraken on that site... I guess they overprice the poop, and underprice the... whatever the opposite of poop is.

http://airgunsource.com/

more specifically,

http://www.businessvision.net/Edge/M...uct&SKU=170903

For 180, you cant beat the price. If you have 350-1500 dollars to blow on a toy then get verified.

This site is Canadian? <3 Thanks man ;) lol

And as you can see, $1500 isn't exactly in my airsoft budget, considering that I was considering a Kraken

And since a just spent $6000 on stuff for my band :O

Canadian my friend-yeah, 1500 would buy me a nice PRS

Its a JG, rebranded by Cybergun/Panther arms-

You really dont need a scope man-maybe a red dot or a reflex, but not really

And I just totally love reflex sights. but I want something that takes skill to use and aim (well, some skill) instead of point, shoot, hold tigger.

I hate to tell you this, but your constant posting of every thought that comes in your head, is quite annoying, there is also an "edit" function.

This comment doesnt really make all that much sense

Ok sorry, it's just that I might as well bring it up now instead of later. I guess this thread can kind of die off now, because now it is just my desicion on which gun to get. Unless someone wants to buy one for me ;) Birthday coming up! lol

But I am hoping that JG will stay that low of a price, because it is friggin almost half the price of everywhere else (minus the classifieds)

Does anybody know if their prices are normally that low, or if it is just some clearance, or a broken gun?

And for me posting every 10 seconds, I guess I'm just... peppy. lol.

OH! And I like pineapples ;)

the gun is on sale man-269 at other canadan stores

I know i emailed them - at the end of September it is back to $279.99

the only thing I am concerned about is that I have learned that rebranded DPMS Jing Gong's are of lower quality, because they were made when Jing Gong was still growing. I'm kind of leary of how sturdy these are now.... whould you have any idea? what makes it worse than new JG's

The DPMS stuff is old JG, JG has since revamped everything and is producing better guns.

I would avoid DPMS like the plague.

but what is so bad about their old stuff? quality control? crap internals?

Quality control, AWFUL internals, poor tolerances, very weak metal.... I honestly can't think of one GOOD reason to get one over a G&G or one of the other half-breed cheap clear guns.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...highlight=Zeta

The link above has pics of the internals of the aforementioned Panther Arms / Cybergun/ JG rebrand M4A1.

because it is $130 less? and thanks

Nope more crude but hey it's an AK what do you expect :D

Kraken = $160

DMPS rebranded JG M4A1 = $170

Is DPMS worth buying over aftermath if it is a rebranded JG?

If you plan on gaming it, I'd say only if you're confident enough to upgrade it and fix what every problems that will more than likely arise.

but there are going to be problems on both :P

right now I have a friend how is selling his JG G36C with a leapers red/green dot for $375. is this worth the money? i cant get any other G36's in Canada due to them being black, and that fact that I'm not verified

I dont believe a JG G36 is worth that much (325 max), black or not its still Chinese made. No its not worth it, I can't make the decision for you, either a M4 or AK.
EDIT: I still beleive that a G&G will be your best bet, even if its just the rec version. I own a G&G M4 (intermediate version) and its awesome.

You do realize that companies like Classic Army and Real Sword are both Chinese and considered very good quality right? Chinese made doesn't mean crap...Just like contrary to popular belief, not all American cars are plastic pieces of shit.

even over the JG G36C? And thanks for your help.

Its just that this will be my only chance to get the G36C in Canada without getting verified, and its kind of a cool thought :P

keep in mind the G36 comes with a leapers red/green dot, an extra mag, and 2 8.4 V batteries with charger, and 2000 .20 bbs


sorry for all these questions btw, but that is generally how it goes on my threads. :P

Is the regulaar G&G M4 worth it over the Rec version? Is the advanced that really worth the extra $100 price tag?

G&G M4 Reg.=$308
G&G M16 Reg.=$319
(G&G M16 with RIS.=$392)
G&G M4 Adv.= $382
G&G M16 Adv.=$393

And does anyone have any idea if the M16's Carrying handle is removable for rails underneath? and also where I can get an M4 stock for M16 as a replacement? Thanks for all of your help guys.


EDIT: Just read Amos' review on the Rec version of the G&G M4, and apparently it's crap compared to the others

Ynot just get age verified then? Ur in Toronto, tons of av reps around here, then you can buy a proper airsoft gun

Right now, I'm looking for a gun to plink in the basement with, take apart (maybe), just tinker around with and see if a am into the sport before dropping tons of cash on a gun, suit, and inevitably getting addicted :P

And wouldn't G&G be considered a 'proper' airsoft gun regardless?

.

Doesn't matter what whether ur gaming it or not, there's tons of av'd members that have never been to a game :) being av'd really increases ur options for guns and parts, and by proper I mean not crap like the dpms and the cansofs/clearsofts

or you can disregard this, buy a crappy gun and have it break it's really up to you :D

very good point. i will look into it... i just wish that the classifieds were open and everyone could see guns/prices, but non verified members just couldnt buy them. then we would know what we are missing ;)

but that right now is regardless, back to the topic please. :D

well krakens are very good guns once you tinker but don't expect it to last more than a year of gaming unless you "tinker" the gun

JG is a great company as your also forgetting "Echo1" "Rebranded JG" so your friends gun should be fairly decent "Depending on the year"

You can target practise and if you decide to play then you can play with less mods compared to ur standard Kraken.

If you like Aks get the Kraken if you like G36's then go for it.

There both good starting choices but realy its what YOU want

G&G M4/M16 is looking good to me, advanced might be a bit much, but I will wait for Knyte and Amos' review

If the advanced version is what I think it really is then it's basically the regular G&G (like the ones Ken used to sell before CAS got an exclusive contract).

G&G has 3 lines, Top Tech (high end), G&G (mid end) and Combat Machine (low end). As they don't want to "dilute" their Top Tech namebrand they will not make Cansoft Top Tech guns, so that leaves us with G&G and Combat Machine corresponding to "Advanced" and "Rec" versions. This is all speculation and there have been posts about some of their guns being halfbreeds between Combat Machine and regular G&G but only time (and some reviews) will tell.