Echo 1 E90 (P90) review
 

Then someone here on ASC made a post a couple of months ago about Echo 1 releasing a P90 - the E90 - in the near future. Right away, this got my attention. It would offer a full metal upper receiver, and the usual decent reliability that Echo 1 and JG are known for - being the top of the ladder when it comes to more affordable Chinese-made airsoft guns.



So I contacted another ASC member who imports guns occasionally, and got him to keep an eye out for me to get one on the Oct 10 release date. In mid-October, he contacted me saying the order had been placed and my gun would be in his hands within a week. Less than a week later, I received the gun at my door.

As soon as I took the box from the friendly Canada Post contractor, I was immediately impressed with the weight of the box. I had remembered the lightweight feel of the TM P90, so the heft of the box was a great sign. Removing the wrapping paper, and opening the box, I was now looking at my new toy.


Removing it from the box, I was impressed with its nice weight and feel. And the included extra were nice, including a SECOND 68-round low cap magazine, complete with very realistic looking fake bullets, the usual cleaning / clearing rod, a 200 round pistol mag-style BB loader (instead of the loading tube), a 9.6V 1100 mAh battery, the useless wall-wart charger, and a brief manual. All in all, this was a very complete package. I plugged the battery into my 'real' charger and returned to work.


Upon returning home from work, I got a change to examine the gun in more detail. The ABS body is similar in strength and style to TM, although it has a more textured finish similar to Classic Army plastic instead of TM. While it's ABS and not fibre-reinforced nylon like CA, it does have a very similar feel, only with less texturing. It also eliminates the shine that is normally associated with TM plastic.

I inspected the details of the body. The seam line between the 2 halves of the shell is excellent and show no unevenness or spaces. The shells parts fit together perfectly. The plastic appears to be very sturdy and looks like it could handle some serious abuse without and problem. There is a little bit of 'creak' in the front grip, but otherwise, the whole thing is very solid and doesn't creak all over like the TM P90. I'm sure a little expanding foam sprayed into the front handle would remove any signs of creaking. The left side of the body has "Model ECHO90 Cal. 5.7x28" This is the only marking to be found on the plastic body.



Next, I removed the upper receiver. This thing is HEAVY. Other than the hopup unit and the cocking lever "knobs", there isn't a piece of plastic to be found. While it did ship to me with a blaze orange plastic flash hider, but also included a black metal one. It did take some work to remove the plastic one though. I don't think it was glued on, but took some force to remove, and that ended up stripping the flash hider's threading. Not really an issue though, since I don't plan on ever reinstalling it. The muzzle is threaded with a standard 14mm negative thread, so you can attach your choice of flash hiders, silencers, etc. Echo 1 has now released a Gemtech style silencer that's now available for this gun.

The upper receiver is stamped with Echo 1 E90 trademarks instead of FN. Since Echo 1 is an American distributor, they obviously have to adhere to US trademark laws, and since their product isn't licensed by Fabrique Nationale, they can't use their trademarks. That being said, the trademarks do look good. The left side of the receiver has the "E90 cal 5.7x28" in large lettering on the side of the rail, as well as a serial number in smaller print. The right side of receiver is stamped with "E90 5.7mm ECHO1USA.COM MADE IN P.R.C." in small lettering right above the cocking handle. All lettering is clean and clear and has good depth.





So with a fully charged battery, I loaded up a magazine and test fired it. This gun is quite loud. While I don't have a TM P90 to directly compare it to, I seem to remember the TM seemed reasonably quiet. This one has a rather loud report - louder than any of my other guns. I found out subsequently from a video review I saw on YouTube that the gun comes with a metal piston head, so I assume that's the reason for the loud crack with each shot. The sights on this gun are very basic at best, since it's intended to be used with an RDS or other optic. But the shots were straight and true at the 20 foot range I have to shoot it at in my house. I also like the fact that since the magazines feed top to bottom, there are no extra BBs "lost" in the hopup when you empty the mag. 68 rounds means 68 rounds!

Next I ran the gun through the chrony. The gun is advertised as shooting 350 fps - ideal for CQB. My results showed the gun to be a bit hot, shooting in the 360-375 range. I will note that I've put almost 2000 rounds through this gun since I got it just plinking it (yes, it's THAT much fun to shoot). I ran it through the chrony again today for 10 shots, and most were between 345 and 355 fps now that the spring has settled a bit. I did get a shot that was 362 fps, but all others were within range. Rocking the 9.6V battery, I got a rate of fire of 13.5 BBs/second.

Now I have to get to the problem I had with the gun. Right out of the box, I had a bit of an issue with shooting in semi-auto. If I switched from safe to semi, it worked perfectly. However, switching from auto to semi, my first shot would yield a 2-3 round burst, followed by single shots. But the more I fired it in semi, the more frequent this burst would occur, until finally, after about 6 magazines, semi was replaced by full auto. I opened the gun and removed the mechbox to see if the problem wasn't with the trigger assembly, but found that even out of the body while manually activating what I assume is the selector, it would still fire auto only. I didn't open the box, since I'm not familiar with V6 design, but I suspect the gun had an off-spec cut-off lever installed at the factory, and it wore out quickly from repeated use.

As I said, I don't have any experience with the V6 mechbox, but this mechbox looked pretty sturdy. It's black, and sports the Echo 1 logo in white on the right side. It feels very solid compared to the standard lightweight pot metal JG and TM V2 mechboxes I've handled. It feels more akin in solidity to the JG, CA and Guarder reinforced shells I have dealt with. The external plastic parts are clear, allowing you to easily follow the electrical connections. This would be great for troubleshooting potential electrical problems. The gearbox also features 7mm metal bushings instead of the usual 6mm nylon bushings on the TM version.

Since I don't have any experience with the internals, I figured I would link to this 2-part video on YouTube by Stryke Airsoft that shows the complete disassembly of the E90 and shows off its internals. The guy knows what he's doing, so he can give a better explanation than I can.

Stryke Airsoft Review Part 1

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=pdlWU3X4bGs

Stryke Airsoft Review Part 2

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=R3WZ6aQV-2s

And now for a bit more pr0n....








PROS:
· Great feel
· Solid construction
· Comes with 2 standard lo-cap magazines instead of the crappy TM high caps
· Excellent accuracy (at least at the range I tested)
· Excellent rate of fire
· Good muzzle velocity for CQB
· Great price (Expect JG-calibre prices instead of TM-level prices)

CONS:
· Cheap battery that probably won't last
· Cut-off lever failed at less than 500 rounds leaving it full auto only.
· A little hot for CQB out of the box - requires some use to break in the spring
· Echo 1 trademarks instead of FN. Not really an issue IMO, but some people will more than likely whine and complain about this

So all in all, this is actually a pretty awesome gun considering the price. For anyone who wants a P90 with a full metal upper receiver, but doesn't really want to shell out the $600+ for a TM with a plastic upper, then another bundle for a metal upper or probably even more for a CA (once it's released - it wasn't yet at the time of writing this review), the Echo 1 E90 is the choice for you. At a very affordable price point, it offers great performance and great cosmetics. The loss of semi-auto so prematurely was a bit of a bummer, but since I rarely use semi, it's not an issue for me. And it's a rather cheap and easy fix anyway.

So if you're looking for an affordable P90, this is definitely the way to go.

great review man.

I'm a big stargate fan so I am really considering getting one of these. Did you just buy this off one of the retailers here? If you could PM me the price you got it for, and who you got it from, that would be great. It probably wont be for a while though, i just want to know where to look once i have enough money again

thanks

hot chick not included?


awww, not buying this then

Sorry, all I'm willing to say is that I got from an occasional importer and that it was in the price range you'd normally pay for a JG submachine gun. But as I said in my review, even with the minor issue I encountered, it's a great gun at a great price, especially when considering the other options on the market for a P90. If you have the cash to burn now, then TM is really your only other choice, but it's all plastic. If you're willing to wait for the CA, then that will be the ultimate airsoft P90. But prepare to sell yourself into prostitution to be able to afford it. If you're looking for an affordable gun, this is the only option. And honestly, I muct prefer it over the TM, and it's about ½ the price.

And no, she's not included. I don't think she'd appreciate me passing her around. Barbie's part of my "private collection". ;)

Very nice review as always! This is the first time I've ever heard of a China-to-America company (JG, JLS, TSD etc.) including an alternate black flash hider, most of the time they just slap the orange on there and call it a day. Do you think they'll release the regular (RDS) version if this one does well? It wouldn't be very hard, they would just have to redesign the upper a bit. Considering this is an exeptionally priced, *full metal P90 (the only one the market as of now), I think this model will bring in nice profits for E1.

hmmm....i guess ill have to do it the old fashioned way...ask the around! dang it!

Yeah, it's the first time I hear of an American-distributed gun coming with the replacement metal flash hider too. My Real Sword Type 56 also came with a crappy orange plastic tip, but included the regular metal one in the box. Granted, mine came from Redwolf and didn't travel to the US first. I do know that my gun was ordered from an American store from my importer. I don't really have an answer for that. Maybe the retailer included the regular tip because the gun was being shipped to a Canadian customer rather than an American one.

I don't know what E1 have in store for the E90 in terms of an RDS version. Personally, I prefer the Tri-rail version, as I can attach whatever optic I want, as well as a flashlight.

Yes, well I don't consider RS to be an Direct-To-America company (Due mostly to their quailty), they distribute to Asia and surrounding area primarily (N.A. being an important secondary market) if I'm correct. Was the flash hider loose in the box or did it have a set spot in the foam? Yeah I agree, the RDS version doesn't allow for tons of customization. Unless you get one of them P90 Massive-Mother-of-Freaking-God-Gunship kits that have like an acre of R.I.S. on them as well as 2 M203's and an MP7 ;).

Yeah, that's why I said that RS aren't really an American-distributed product. I mentioned it because it was the only other gun I ever got that came with an orange tip. And the black flash hider was included in the box in one of the cutouts in a small plastic bag. Perhaps they are included, and retailers / distributors remove them from the packaging when selling to an American customer, but leave it when it's being shipped out of the country.

And yeah, I've seen those kits. IMO, they look horrible and kind of defeat the purpose of the ultra-compact bullpup design of the P90.

Great review

Welcome to the P90 Family

Oh! Terribly sorry I missed that, my eyes got ahead while the brain lagged behind! Yes that would make sense, anyway it's not really a big issue, but it's nice that it came with one! A part of me likes those kits and a part of me hates them. It's like the JG Dragon. I like the look for the most part, but couldn't really see why you'd play with a gun like that (aside from comfort or some kind of futuristic-roleplaying-airsoft game which are rare in the U.S. and probably never done in Canada). Anyway, I'll stop before the review gets hijacked even more...

Damn....

I am about to get a TM P90.... now I don't want it anymore.

However, it might as well be a CA90 (yes you heard me) in a few weeks.

If you where closer, we could have done a "All P90s review" lol.

CA90 will probably be quite expensive though. I LOVE CA guns. My M15 is by far my favourite of all airsoft guns I've shot to date. I tend to buy CA externals for my other guns (most of my JG MP5 is CA externally), and so forth. All my C8's furniture is CA as well.

But seeing how godly expensive a TM is, I can't even begin to imagine how expensive a metal receiver CA will be in Canada. That's why to me, the E90 is a clear winner. May need a bit of work to make it "perfect", but at that price, I'll take it over the others any day. But to have the money, I'd hit the CA, but would then have to upgrade it, because it's also rated at about the same performance level as the TM... I like my guns to be a minimum of 320 fps.

Hmm. I notice that the text on the magazine looks different from the one on my TM ones, although it says the same thing. The trades are different, too. "PRC" made me laugh.

Instead of just the regular "China"? Lol.

Yeah. I didn't realise people in the PRC actually used the term....PRC. It sounds much cooler then China, anyway.

So wish I could grab 1 right now. Stupid bills, why do you have to come bother me every month?

What's better is Hong Kong. "Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China"

HKSARPRC? :D

Considering that the trades all say Echo1 USA, I'm guessing they just stamped it with whatever Echo 1 told them. And yes, I also think PRC looks better than China.

Great review!
I am so tempted to ask around to see if anyone will bring it in for me too.

It's a great gun for the money, but unless you're age-verified, so one is going to import one for you.

Are there people who are willing to/importing these for those who ask?

They look really cool - and they look good with the ladies as well.

Post in the 'wanted' section and find out.

Any idea who would be able to import one of these for me? I will be age verified this month whenever my local age verifier gets the time, so im just trying to get this thing going asap. Any help would be much appreciated.

There's a few importers who would be glad to help. You'll find out who they are whenever your local age verifier gets the time.

Ok thanks, and another quick question is whether these will fit with the P90 http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ks-68rd-m...r-p90-aeg.html and also if we are able to import from ehobbyasia without problems? I wanted to place my order pretty quick because the 10% sale is about to go out but im not sure if I would receive my packages without hassle.

Man if you got a hot chick with ever gun, holy crap would airsoft be popular...

P90 mags have fake bullets so they would be a no go.
I do sell some P90 mags in my parts section though.

Oh right, thanks for the heads up. Any other things i would have a problem with on ehobby? like BB's, loaders, holsters, rifle cases, scopes/sights, silencers, or targets? Since most of these things would normally indicate ownership of firearms or airsoft.

Silencers are a no go aswell. AFAIK everything else is fine.

You can get a lot of that in country.

even scopes/sights?

Unless you're planning on importing something from some ex-soviet country that uses a controlled substance in the sight... but that's not normally an issue unless you're using real military sights.

A bunch of it is cheaper overseas. But yes supporting Canadian retailers is always nice :D

That's what i was thinking, and i heard a few people mention ehobby so i thought i would give it a try. Any other suggestions for overseas accessories for airsoft? But don't worry I'm still spending a fair amount in the Canadian market. :wink:

Considering this is suppose to be a review thread, you might want to ask this in a new post in the newbie tank or something.

sorry, my bad, got a little carried away there.

Very nice review! Was wondering about Echo 1's version of the P90 for awhile now. Do have an question: Are the Echo1 mags an good fit for an TM P90 version and vice versa?
cheers

I just found this review online since I was looking at p-90 pictures online for fun.

I got the TM one like 2 years ago for 350 USD (I think) modded to 475 fps and an upgraded battery to keep the rate of fire high. (Those battery upgrades are wierd cause it's amazing they fit). Also I find the "plinking" comment funny. Mine goes through aluminum cans :p

For some reason it looks like that echo 1 is a reverse engineer of the TM one. I'm sure it's different inside though. Have you used both? If so are they identical inside?

Almost every other AEG manufacturer copis Tokyo Marui. Why should a cheap clone company like Echo1 be any different? And yes, the Echo1 uses a V6 mechbox.

FYI Echo 1 does not manufacture guns, they only rebrand them under their own name, similar to Aftermath.

This particular P90 is made by a lesser known A.C.M. brand called KS.

Mine will go through cans at 350 fps. No problems there at all. Usually, I shoot at paper targets mounted on my home-made backstop.

And it's a 100% TM clone as far as I know. If you look at the YouTube videos I posted from that other guy, he does a comparison of both the TM and E1.

Vids are no longer available :(

that's in the US tho, a BNIB TM P90 would be much more here. as importing airsoft is illegal and if you are going to pay $600 i would want a better body for it, the well seems like a good alternative!

The review on Arnies stated that the E90 has a two stage trigger not unlike the AUG when the selector is set to full auto. Can you confirm that?

Not that it answers your question, but the TM P90 trigger is not dual stage.
However, it's very easy to squeeze off single shots without starting the cycle into a second shot (half-cocked piston, etc).

I don't think the trigger is really dual stage as on the AUG. The AUG doesn't have a fire selector and relies on the 2-stage trigger for semi and full auto. The P/E90 has a fire selector. But lightly depressing the trigger on full auto did set off only a single shot, whereas squeezing it all the way went full-auto. I could do this on the TM P90 I tried as well so don't think it's specific to the Echo 1.

Just got my E90. I don't think it's quite as solid as the TM (but pretty damned close) and the mags definetly aren't as solid, but considering it's about half the price, no complaints.

When set to full auto, the trigger definetly has 2 settings. About a 2/3 depress cycles the mechbox once (even when held, it does one full cycle), and a full depress fires in full auto. I don't ever remember being able to do this on the TM.

You're right Crunch, this thing is fun to shoot! One question though.. how the hell did you get the plastic flashider off? Mine didn't come with a metal one and I want to see if my supressor will go on it.

Aww I was going to get one but hearing that its not 100% TM copy leaves my mouth a bit dry. But not too dry cause its not that bad seeing how you guys still find it good.

But the cheaper mags sounds really nice :)

The TM P90 I once had worked in the rain (light rain) in the forest which probably has enough moisture to mess things up but it kept on kicking. Though I admit the trigger didn't seem the same after, had to readjust and lube it. But it still worked like a charm

I've got both tm(outdoor setup) and echo1(cqb) and both have a 2 stage trigger.

The orange flash hider was screwed on with a small amount of clear glue (no idea of the type). I used pliers to twist it off. Chewed up the plastic but my box DID include a black metal replacement.

It seemes everyone's E90 did include a metal flashhider.. mine didn't :(. I just stuck a SOCOM supressor on it for now. It looks decent enough.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...soft/p90_3.jpg

sorry if im resurrecting an older thread, but does anyone know of a retail who actually orders these in??

Sorry if I anger anyone by resurrecting this thread. Just wanted to know what battery I should buy to replace the less effiecent one it comes with

You can get 9.6v mini "J" batteries which will fit. <--- Wrong answer. Read below.

J battery won't fit the E90. The J battery is a 9.6V made with 2/3A mini cells and designed for the TM P90. Echo 1 have made a small adjustment to the internals of the battery compartment allowing the use of a side-by-side 9.6V mini battery, like the one that comes with it.

However, those aren't typically available. I would recommend going to www.cheapbatterypacks.com and build yourself a custom 9.6v 1500 mAh pack using Elite cells. It will cost about the same as a cheapo battery back would, but it's made with the best cells on the market and quality wiring and workmanship.

My apologies, I was under the impression the Echo1 was a clone (body wise) of the TM.

Another solution would be to dabble with Li-Po batteries, a 7.4v is smaller than an 8.4mini and will have the same power as an 8.4v large.

I'll try that

Does anyone know where I could get one of these in Canada, the classifieds?

Yep.

Theyre much more expensive than Krakens though.

Before I decide to get AVed, do you know approx how much they cost in the classifieds?

About 3 Krakens, depending on where you get em.

Prices are different here.

I just bought a custom battery for the E90/ KS P90..... 9.6V 1600mah at airsoftgi.com...... since our dollar is pretty much at par with them. It only costs $35 (USD).... and mags are only $15(USD for KS mag).....

And i dont want any rage messages saying that they are not the same.

Around $350 plus shipping

Thanks!!! So would you recommend I get a TM high cap or AMP mid cap? I'm not looking at low caps as of now

no not get a hicap, I have yet to find a P90 hicap that feeds reliably, plus, hicaps are for SAWs, not P90s

What about AMP midcaps?

I believe cbcsteve reviewed them, and they feed like crap. The 130 round ones right?

yes, but from what im reading more about is just pointing me towards low cap mags so i might as well stop wasting my time and just give in to all the peer pressure

The P90 doesn't give you much choice. Both the hi-caps and midcaps feed like crap. That leaves.... the standard mag. You can go with either TM or the cheaper JG ones. The JG ones don't look as good and aren't as solid, but they're cheaper and still work perfectly.

Enjoyed the review, very informative, thank you!

will the e90 pass through customs into canada

Unless you're talking about the Nokia E90, no, I don't believe that I will make it past customs.

I like your sig...nice quote from the Art of War.

No. You can't import airsoft guns into Canada.

I suggest you go to the War Store in Buffalo, NY ( If u don't mind a 2 hour drive) and ask them to order a p90 if they don't already have one. Paid like $190 US for mine. Worked great for a few days until something caused half of the piston teeth to strip right off. Now waiting on a replacement piston set. At least I know the inner workings of a version 6 gearbox now.

How did you get a black gun? I thought they were illegal.

Read the FAQs. Please.

They are illegal to import, not own.

Anyone know what type of spring is in the e90?

I have one, and no it doesnt come with metal piston head, just poly ported ones. Ill put the pictures soon, when i get age verified by AMOS. It's a great gun....

Well, mine came with an aluminum piston head.

Interesting, mine didn't either.

i guess it really depends on the distributor. i mean thats why some would chrono'd up to 395 to 405 FPS an the regular one's are only 375 to 380 FPS...

ya mine was weird because on youtube where you could buy from airsoft trinity and airsoftgi, their echo 1 E90 comes with aluminum ones'. Where di you get yours?

A retailer here on ASC.

I got mine. Im gettin age verified soon i wanna see what guns we have here in ASC. My P90 is fully upgraded now, it has systema parts inside, i just gotta change the motor and inner barrel, then im good to go. i even have the RIS and madbull silencer and sling atachment. I have high caps because i dont like the 1500 round one's not comfortable when using left hand.

which pistol did you order from them? and when did you order yours? because i recieved my p90 this christmas and pistol on november... man im so scared now lol... i dont wanna order there again

The HFC full auto Beretta. Ordered during the summer. I posted a politely written complaint in the forums and got banned. :( Those twats can go die. I realized its far cheaper driving to New York to get by gun fix:)

Yeaaaaaaaah....thats not any more legal than ordering it online dude. If you buy it in NY and drive it over there are two possibilities.

1) Do not declare it and hope not to get searched. This is called smuggling.

2) Declare it. Have it inspected by the CBSA officer. Get it seized.

So can you please elaborate your "driving to New York to get your gun fix" please?

Easy. Refer to your point #1 He'll stop laughing the day they pull him aside. He does not need to elaborate nor do I want him to.

Guys lets keep this thread on topic.

I have a quick question for everyone who has a P90 or E90. I bought a madbull gemtech silencer about 6.2 inches long and 1.4 diameter thick. How long and which type of inner barrel i should get? Because i wanna extend it, I just dont want it to go over the silencer...

your silencer is about 150mm add that to the length of your inner barrel which is about 240mm so anywhere up to 390mm total length should be ok, though I'd suggest checking out in detail the length of your inner and silencer, in Millimeters. most silencers i've seen run 3/4 to full length under the silencer

would that be equivalent to an m4 or m16 inner barrel? I have prometheus spring and a systema cylinder kit in my gearbox. but i notice that the FPS is everywhere. like 340 and sometimes 300. why is it like that? does anyone know?

I am not sure, as I said measure and then buy.
as for your FPS, your hop-up could be off, your rubber could be damaged, your airseal may suck,

I fixed it... Its the hop up bucking I didn't put it right. As for my seal everything inside is systema except for the gears. I tested it out first to get a good seal before I put it all together. Thanks for the help

This site should help u figure out what barrel lengths u'd need http://www.thewarstore.org/airsoft-p...-parts/barrels